Do you believe in the healing power of crystals?

[dolorous_ett]

[Poll #1352567][Poll #1352567]
I had a real rant prepared on a related subject, but I thought I'd better see how the land lay first!

Comments

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

Were the crystals mined by elves?

[the-reda.livejournal.com]

You made me snort tea. On my laptop. You win.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I don't see why not. Would it help?

(where do you get this stuff? It isn't even Norwegian!)

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

I think that one was just in the paper. But the general answer is that I will read anything, and that I have a good memory!

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

It depends on what you mean by "basis in science," because what we think of as science changes all the time. Lots of times things work even before we understand the science behind them - in the middle ages nobody knew that willow bark tea contained anti-inflammatory chemicals, but that didn't stop them from using it to ease pain. And lots of things that supposedly have a strong basis in science - see all fad diets, for example - don't work for a variety of reasons.

Crystals, however, that's just silly. ;)

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

And lots of things that supposedly have a strong basis in science - see all fad diets, for example - don't work for a variety of reasons.

But is that really a strong basis in science, or is it more like cherry-picking, or using scientific terminology for something that's basically made up?

Crystals, however, that's just silly. ;)

Well, you ought to know! Not that they aren't miraculous in their own, geological way, of course...

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

I hate to break it to you, but science and scientists very often get things very, very wrong even when they're doing everything properly, and it's not always because they're making things up. It's because the entire point of science is about working with things that aren't fully understood. It's true in every field, but it's especially true in medicine. There's a reason thousands of treatments are developed every year but only a handful of them make it past all the trials and tests, and of those that make it past all the trials, quite a lot of them are later discovered to be not quite what they're thought to be.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

Oh, I completely agree. If they understood it all already, there'd be precious little point in doing the reseach!

But at the same time, there are a lot of people about who pinch scientific terminology and use it for spurious justification for their quack remedies (such as "Dr" Gillian McKeith) - that's a completely different kettle of fish, and something far worse, in my view.

[tree_and_leaf]

To clarify my response - I think it's quite possible that there are some 'alternative' remedies that work - I'm thinking of herbs, for instance - but they would work for 'scientific' reasons, even if no-one has yet understood the mechanism. That does not, however, mean that I'd be happy taking things which have not been properly tested and when it's not clear what strength the dose is. I'll believe in the healing power of crystals when I see the peer-reviewed evidence.

I do believe in the possibility of miracles of healing- but that's not the same thing as alternative medicine and could not be used as a regime of treatment... I also doubt that God is going to miraculously cure my headache when he gave me perfectly good aspirin/ paracetemol/ ibuprofen for the purpose....

I tried homeopathic pills for hay fever a couple of times. They didn't work.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I do believe in the possibility of miracles of healing- but that's not the same thing as alternative medicine and could not be used as a regime of treatment... I also doubt that God is going to miraculously cure my headache when he gave me perfectly good aspirin/ paracetemol/ ibuprofen for the purpose....

If we ever meet face to face, I would like very much to talk to you some more about this way of thinking - but without being able to pick up on visual cues of when I'm causing offence (so easily done here) I don't dare.

[themolesmother.livejournal.com]

I have tried Chinese Herbal Medicine, which did help control the symptoms of uterine fibroids for a while. I've also had acupuncture, which was very relaxing but didn't really do anything else for me.

When it comes to my cancer I'll take all the most up to date pharmaceuticals my oncologist is prepared to throw at me. There's a word for people to who try and treat this disease with alternative therapy, and that's "dead".

MM

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

There should be a special hell for people who try to get the sick to abandon conventional, up to date treatment that works in favour of something that is at best untested and based on superstition. Even if they genuinely believe in this stuff instead of being out to exploit the sick, it's still a scummy thing to do.

Nice of you to drop by, by the way - I hope things are well with you.

[malinbe.livejournal.com]

There's this thing with me and that sort of stuff: One half absolutely refuses to believe in anything- from crystals to religion. There's nothing beyond the physical word, and faeries are as unrreal as god. Then there's another half of me that thought seriously about converting to wiccan a couple of years ago (it was too much trouble).

I know, I am absolutely crazy. I suppose I can only arrive to the conclusion of the power of persuasion of the mind. I'd rather believe in God and afterlife and faeries and pretty rocks curing illness than the all too human doctors and pharmacy industry my brain keeps telling me is all there is. If you believe in healing crystals, *really* believe in them, it might work. It's the awesome power of the mind.

Then there are the things I can't explain. Ever since I was a baby, every time I got an upset stomach, I was cured by an old lady (be it one of my great aunts or my across the street neighbour) that made me held a string below my ribs, whispered a few mysterious words and kept making cross signs on my forehead, chest and belly. I don't know if it is Power of the Mind or that upset stomach will usually be cured within three days of dieting (which is what the old lady in question always advised). It's most likely that. But I can't deny, even if I sometimes refuse to believe there's a god, that if I have an upset stomach, I allow an old lady to come to my house and do her thing.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I don't think you're crazy - I think you're searching harder for answers than most people, which has to be a good thing, surely?

I've had someone do qigong on my stomach. I was very sick, and under a lot of strain, but I swear I could feel things moving around, and he didn't even touch me. And I'm about as sceptical about things like this as you can get. So I do know what you mean.

[ajat.livejournal.com]

Crystals ? Well, I don't think so. Heal what, btw ?

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

Your energies out of alignment or some such. Here's a link. Read it and weep.

http://www.holisticshop.co.uk/itemdetl.php/itemprcd/cnt-lib-cyl-ait

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

Oh dear. And I see that the drop it in water bit is homeopathic, too...

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I think what terrifies me most of all is that the writer of this web page reckons to have a science degree.

[ajat.livejournal.com]

:D Gosh, it's hilarious XD Haven't laughed so much in a while :D Er, what does Exeter Uni say about this, eh ? And, I think I just revised my thoughts of ever applying to the Exeter Uni HEHE

[lyras.livejournal.com]

I ended up writing reports on various complementary therapies for a market research company a couple of years ago. Bizarrely, homeopathy, which is currently the most entrenched in the British medical system, is also one of the therapies with the least (read no) proof of its efficacy.

I am mostly sceptical about complementary therapies, although I do believe that most complementary therapists are well-meaning and believe that they can help people. Also that there is a place for complementary therapy in palliative care - NOT that it will cure people, but that it can improve their quality of life.

Aromatherapy (using proper oils, not the fake stuff that's all over the shops) has been helpful to me on occasion, e.g. lavender oil alleviates sunburn better than any After Sun, for me. Crystals, on the other hand. *rolls eyes*

Anyway, rant away!

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

That's interesting, especially as homeopathy is at the acceptable end of the complementary therapies.

The only complementary therapists I've met have been without exception lovely people - and often the sort I can well imagine having a real effect through force of personality alone. Though one of those lovely people I am now no longer speaking to, as her attitude to treating of a life-threatening condition terrified me.

I find lavender nice to sniff when I can't sleep, and I rub rosemary on my hands when I want a pick-me-up. I wouldn't use either to treat anything sort of medical condition, though.

[tunxeh.livejournal.com]

I think there's a lot of healing value in panaceas. Crystalline, homeopathic, prescription sugar pills, whatever, is not so important: what is important is that the patient believe that it's likely to work. That said, I answered no to everything.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I agree - just believing you're being treated works a lot. And what I didn't know until recently is that the doctor believing in a treatment helps a lot too - even if scientific studies have proved it not to be very good.

[tunxeh.livejournal.com]

I just realized, of course I meant "placebos" rather than "panaceas".

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, there is a lot of healing value in panaceas! *g*

[slagony-aunt.livejournal.com]

Nah. Growing up in a coastal ag-town (read: lots of hippies) meant that a lot of poor and uneducated people were suckered into really fucking bogus treatment, to the detriment of their livelihoods and lives. Seeing single mothers being told by rich wankers that immunisation would give their kids autism, and then getting numerous outbreaks of measles and whooping cough in the region, led to a lot of really bad health problems in my own primary school as a kid.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

That... why do people do that?

We had a big MMR vaccine scare over here a few years ago. The argument that it caused autism has been exploded, but there are still plenty of credulous middle-class nitwits who are all proud that their little Conrad and Messalina haven't been protected against diseases that could actually do some damage - or be passed on by them to damage someone else.

[slagony-aunt.livejournal.com]

Growing up in a place where alternative medicine (and if it were actually medicinal in the first place, it wouldn't need the qualifying "alternative" preceding it) outnumbered conventional health providers 6 to 1, I have absolutely no tolerance for that crap. The stuff that does work - some herb stuff, and acupuncture for nausea/pain management - often doesn't work as it's described, and much of the former is still too misunderstood to be used conventionally yet.

I'm all for the placebo effect, and essentially it's what people choose to do with their money. When they're being deliberately misled, robbed, and prevented from accessing proven treatment that works, then it loses its innocuousness.

[st-aurafina.livejournal.com]

Oh. I filled this poll in merrily, only to find that I'm in the extreme minority in being positive about alternative medicine.

I have a very strong belief in the power of the mind to heal the body, so any alternative therapy provides a pathway towards that. I'm not talking about curing cancer or mending a broken leg, but the kind of chronic, ill-defined conditions for which conventional medicine can be kind of disheartening.

In practice, in the pharmacy, I really like the way that alternative therapies help people to have an input into their recovery. Usually, by the time that a patient gets to a diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome, ME, polymyalgia or even things like chronic depression, there's not a great feeling of agency in the way their health is managed. Those conditions weren't even recognised a few decades ago, and patients with them were viewed very poorly by doctors. I can't blame them for seeking alternatives in the slightest.

I wouldn't ever advocate stopping pharmaceutical medication in favour of alternative therapies, but there's definitely a place for it in medicine. I would rather we called them adjunct therapies, and welcomed them into the fold of traditional medicine. As far as I've heard, things like homeopathy are very integrated into traditional healthcare in Germany.

There are people who take advantage of the desperate, as there are in any field. That's why we need regulation, certification and acceptance from people like doctors and pharmacists, to keep the con-artists at bay. And it's happening, slowly.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

As you've probably gathered, I'm pretty sceptical about alternative medicine, so reading this from someone who works in medicine really made me pause for thought.

I wonder what you would make of the setup in China, where most towns have a Chinese medicine hospital, and (as there is no healthcare system to speak of), people shuttle between that and the conventional medicine hospitals pretty much at their own will. They seem to use Chinese medicine more for chronic, low level complaints that western medicine can't cure - and sometimes it does seem to work.

Then there's the whole qigong healing thing, which frankly just does my head in, but let's not go there for now...

(and of course, two conflicting medical systems - which by and large rattle along pretty comfortably together - is the LEAST of China's problems where healthcare is concerned)

[fungus-files.livejournal.com]

I put down acupuncture and am not sure whether it has been shown to have a 'basis in science' - it's recognised on medical rebate schedules now, as is massage and other formerly 'alternative' therapies. I think I have some faith in many of the Chinese 'alternative' medicine practices (e.g. reflexology - my father was diagnosed/assessed when he was in China many moons ago and it was spot on). Re herbal remedies: my brother took a couple of courses of herbal hayfever pills a long time ago and it banished his (persistent, heavy) symptoms for many years. He has to have a top-up dosing every now and then but he's a total advocate.

I am not a crystal healing fan - it makes me roll my eyes a bit. I love crystals themselves (i.e. form, colour, the shiny), but would have them around for aesthetic rather than nurturing/healing reasons.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I'm used to treating some parts of Chinese medicine as "real" medicine, even if not all of it works according to recognised western principles. I've had Chinese herbal medicine twice - once for an eye infection (it worked very well), once for a stomach problem (didn't do much, but that's because the real problem turned out to be double pneumonia) - never acupuncture, though, because of the problems with getting reliably clean needles in my China base, and someone who really knows there stuff in the UK.

I love gemstones. I wear them in my ears, round my neck, on my fingers... but only for the pretty.

[lavenderdusk.livejournal.com]

I was once on a 10 hour train ride with a migraine headache, and no painkillers. A well-meaning passenger offered me an agate (I think it was an agate, this was almost 10 years ago) to take the negative energy away. I had nothing better so I held on to the stupid rock for a few hours. It didn't make me feel any better.
I eventually found the car that sold pain-pills but I couldn't keep them down so it didn't matter.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

The Boots the Chemist in my local train station no longer has a pharmacist, so they are only allowed to sell homeopathic travel sickness remedies. I have very unhappy memories of a long train journey south, trying to take sugar pills at 20-minute intervals without throwing up. Didn't help at all.

But ten hours of a migraine with only a shiny stone for company? That's a lot worse. *shudders*

[ajat.livejournal.com]

But ten hours of a migraine with only a shiny stone

One could try beatin' oneself to death with said 'shiny stone', maybe ? XD

[shui-long.livejournal.com]

Do you believe in any kind of healing that doesn't have a basis in science?

I'm not sure I believe in some kinds of healing that allegedly do have a basis in science...

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

If it's not too late in the day, any specific examples? This is a really interesting statement!

(by the way, do you want me to friend you, or would you prefer your journal to remain in splendid isolation?)

[shui-long.livejournal.com]

Some of my best friends at University were medical students - which has left me with a permanently jaundiced view of the profession....

Science has probably got a reasonably good view of the mechanics and biochemistry of the human body, though doctors don't necessarily get the diagnosis right even with such knowledge. I'm less convinced about the scientific understanding of the mind - my comment was aimed particularly at the drugs (over)prescribed for mental illness, and psychiatric treatment. (Not, I would add, from any direct experience.)

But it isn't that long ago that "science" was convinced of the value of treatments that we now know to be absolute rubbish - so who says our current views are correct? If you want some awful examples, see this:
10 most insane medical practices in history
(with thanks to swan_tower for the link).

Unless you happen to live in the Thames Valley/Berkshire area, and have an interest in classical concerts, opera etc, I fear my LJ is not going to be very rewarding. I don't keep it up as well as I should (currently about six weeks behind on converting notes to LJ entries), but in principle writing a review encourages me to think rather harder about what I'm listening to, and it's a useful record, which helps in deciding what to go to in future. Having said all that, feel free to "friend" if you wish!